Show Notes

In the latest episode of “Celebrating Justice,” trial lawyer Cynthia Attard from the firm Ikhilov & Associates shares her journey from being a corporate attorney to a police officer, and then returning to the legal field as a personal injury trial lawyer. Cynthia recounts how her experience as a police officer has uniquely equipped her for her current role, providing her with an edge over her peers due to her firsthand understanding of law enforcement procedures and courtroom dynamics.

Cynthia also discusses impactful cases from her career, including one particularly challenging personal injury case involving a botched pedicure. She also shares a memorable police story, touching on the emotional and professional challenges of transitioning between careers. For her “Closing Argument,” Cynthia shares insights on picking juries and connecting authentically with clients and jurors.

Chapters

1:36 – Why did you want to become a trial lawyer?
4:53 – What makes you unique?
6:40 – A case(s) that Matters
16:09 – Cynthia’s “Closing Argument”

Key Takeaways

Diverse Experiences Enhance Legal Practice: Cynthia’s background as a police officer provides her with unique insights and skills that set her apart in the field of personal injury law.
Importance of Genuine Client Connection: Building a rapport with clients and jurors is crucial. Cynthia emphasizes the significance of face-to-face interactions and treating clients with empathy and respect.
Challenge and Opportunity in Every Case: Every case, no matter how small or seemingly straightforward, has its unique challenges and potential to impact clients’ lives significantly.
Transitioning Skills Across Careers: Skills and experiences from seemingly unrelated careers can be an asset in law, as demonstrated by Cynthia’s transition from police work to legal practice.
Advocacy Beyond the Courtroom: Cynthia’s stories illustrate the broader impact of personal injury law in holding corporations accountable and advocating for individuals who have been wronged.
Persistence in the Face of Doubt: Cynthia’s advice to new attorneys highlights the importance of perseverance and confidence, teaching that even unlikely cases can have successful outcomes with dedicated effort.

Transcript

[Theme Song Plays]

Cynthia Attard: It’s not always necessarily what you learn and what you know, but it’s who you know. And they literally taught me which judges liked bent shoes and high heels. Guys at me. And he’s like, “Are you kidding me?” I said, “I wish I was”… Outside of the fact that he’s about 80 pounds overweight. Do you really want me to say that? I was just able to transplant whatever aggression and conviction I had as a police officer. Easily put that into a crutch. I’ve seen a lot of attorneys that come in there, and my suggestion to them is it doesn’t matter, because after you’ve done it once, then you’re an expert and that’s it.

Narrarator: Welcome to Celebrating Justice, presented by the Trial Lawyers Journal and CloudLex, the next-gen legal cloud platform built exclusively for personal injury lawyers. Get inspired by the nation’s top trial lawyers and share in the stories that shape our pursuit of justice. Follow the podcast and join our community at www.triallawyersjournal.com. Now here’s your host, Editor of TLJ and VP of Marketing at CloudLex, Chad Sands.

Chad Sands: Welcome back, friends, to Celebrating Justice. In this episode, we hear stories from trial lawyer Cynthia Attard. At first, Cynthia thought she was going to change the world with numbers as a corporate tax attorney, but quickly realized that wasn’t for her. After a stint as a police officer for about five years, she then went back to a life of law, but this time as a personal injury attorney. Cynthia shares stories from the defense side involving a case with a daughter and father suing a mother. One of the more interesting stories from her days as a police officer, and one of the more unique plaintiff cases she had to take on due to a botched pedicure. But first I asked her, “Why did you want to become a trial lawyer?”

Cynthia Attard: When I got out of law school, I thought I was going to be a great corporate attorney, and I went into tax law. Thought I was gonna change the world with numbers, and couldn’t be farther from the truth. It was dry, it was one of those things, you know, you never felt like you were doing anything different. Each day was the same. Yes, you might’ve saved your clients, your corporate clients, money that day, but it’s not the same. I went through bankruptcy as well. Been an attorney for over 20 years now. And I delved. I started there. But if you wanna talk about what I was like before that, I used to be a police officer, and that was in Nassau County. So that was definitely a very open experience as to the way justice gets handled on the street. So I said to myself, “Alright, well you know what? Being a mom of four kids, that’s not exactly the way I want to continue on with my career,” so I went to being a lawyer. So I started off with my first personal injury firm in Queens, and they literally taught me which judges liked red shoes and high heels, or skirts or the whole nine yards. And I learned every possible dark side to personal injury law that you could imagine. But you know what? It teaches you, or it taught me, that it’s not always necessarily what you learn and what you know, but it’s who you know. I met a lot of judges and a lot of clerks, and, you know, all people. There was one judge who had said something to me that really struck a chord at one of the functions. And he explained, he goes, “You know, you could always tell a new trial attorney when they walk through the door. And you can see them, you know, they’re trying to pretend they’re not sweating, and they’re shaking like a leaf. And my suggestion to them is: it doesn’t matter because after you’ve done it once, then you’re an expert. And that’s it.” It stuck with me. That stuck with me ‘cause I had met him obviously earlier in my career, but every single time I had done something that was different, a little bit off-the-cuff from what I was used to, I thought of exactly that day and what he said to me. And I said, “You know what? You’re right.”

Chad Sands: You had a career as a police officer, and then you decided to go to law school?

Cynthia Attard: I did. You know, I was a lawyer before I was a police officer, and that’s when I was doing corporate law. Okay? And when I had my four children, I wanted to be home for my children. There’s not too many law offices that are open 24 hours, obviously, by the way.

Chad Sands: Right.

Cynthia Attard: So the police department was knocking on my door and I said, “You know what? I think I’m gonna go for it.” And I was a police officer for about 5 years. And it was a great time because, you know, I was able to work nights, and I was there for my children while I was raising them. You know, it was a really big switch. So I was already an attorney when I became a police officer, but when I came back, I didn’t go back to the corporate world. I went to trials.

Chad Sands: So you were a corporate attorney, left to become a police officer for five years, and then came back to a life of law, but went into personal injury. So does your background as a police officer make you unique compared to your peers? What do you think makes you unique?

Cynthia Attard: Oh absolutely. Listen. Number one, I mean, in personal injury alone, it’s entirely based on police reports. I know what the procedure is. I know what the criminal procedure is. I know what, you know, the police officers have to, you know, the rules they have to abide by as well as the fire department and so forth. I can relate to the officers when it comes to deposing them, whether they’re a client or a defendant. One of my most recent depositions was regarding a firefighter, and we were talking about negligence and so forth. And he was a little surprised about me knowing about the administrative guidelines that they are supposed to follow, and that’s only stuff that you learn while you’re on the street. Guess you can learn everything from the books, but why would you read it. You know, you’re not gonna go through all of that to learn the full procedure. So, so yeah, it definitely, it’s given me an edge. I’d like to think that my personality has always been open before I became a police officer, but I was just able to transplant whatever aggression and conviction I had as a police officer and easily put that in a courtroom. Don’t get me wrong – I’ll always miss my police days. They were fun! It was like playing cops and robbers. As a girl, you don’t get to play cops and robbers. The boys are like “No, you can’t play cops and robbers. You’re a girl!” So I got to paly it. I got to play it for a good five years. It’s something that I could happily say I’ve done in my past.

Chad Sands: Yes. For sure. I know it’s difficult to choose one, but do you have a case, a personal injury case? Well, I might ask you about a police case. Do you have one case that has had a big impact on you as a trial lawyer? I know it’s hard to choose one, right? But.

Cynthia Attard: I mean, I did both plaintiff and defendant. So I have equal years of experience in both. There’s one case in Queens County that I was defending on. You know, I was in-house counsel too, a large insurance carrier, and they had never used this expert before. Never. So they decided to bestow me with this expert. One expert to defend. So it was a really odd case because the daughter was suing her mother. It was a single car accident. They were going to Hershey Park, God forbid, and the mother fell asleep behind the wheel. It was late at night, and she hit a tree. Okay. So the daughter had TJI. Well, let me tell you. The mother isn’t a lawyer, the father is a lawyer. The daughter who was suing was in law school. The only kick to that is that the mother and father are divorced.

Chad Sands: Wow.

Cynthia Attard: So, hence, daddy convinces the daughter to sue the mother ‘cause he knows what the policy is, and I’m stuck in the middle of this nasty, dirty, you know, soap opera. Okay? Where I have to explain to the court that she really wasn’t injured as a result of this accident, you know? And she’s thriving, and she’s in law school now and so forth. The only kick to that is the one expert that I was given, he didn’t have time to prep, interestingly enough. It was a really odd person, which – never gonna use again, by the way. And, and he shows up at court, and this is after the judge had called me by my first name, by the way, and the whole jury just looked at me. You know, so this whole – at that point, you know when something’s going wrong. You know, this guy’s – everything happens in threes, so something’s gonna happen. This expert comes in and I’m asking him the questions, obviously, and saying, you know, “Well, what would you do in this situation if you had a patient?” You know, giving him the hypotheticals. And he turns around and goes, “Well, you know, to be honest with you, I’m not an expert in that field.” I said, “Oh, really? That’s wonderful. Okay.” I was like, “Well, what do you do in these situations then? You don’t treat these patients?” He goes, “No, I refer them to this doctor.” The same doctor, mind you, that treated my client!

Chad Sands: Oh, man.

Cynthia Attard: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. So I sat there and I said, “Alright, you know what? Let’s call it a day. You know, like I don’t even know what to say anymore with this. Yeah, they got banged with that verdict. They wanted to continue with it and I told the claims rep, I said, “Don’t do it. Settle it now. Do what you gotta do, but.” He was like, “No, I feel that, you know, we’re going to win with this.” I was like, “Okay. Alright.” And sometimes, obviously, in the um defense world, you’re stuck with having to follow, unfortunately, what the higher-ups always say. You know, I am blessed to now have moved on to the plaintiffs world where I can make my own decisions and decide whether or not we’re going to, you know, proceed with the case or settle it beforehand or – not going to be marching orders necessarily all the time. I think I paid my dues enough to say, “Here I am,” and I can actually do more of the litigating as opposed to following orders.

Chad Sands: So I’ve talked to a lot of attorneys who started on the defense side, but then they went straight to the plaintiff’s side. So you had the five year gap as the police officer. Do you have one police story you could share?

Cynthia Attard: I guess one of the most interesting events I had, I guess we can start with that. There was an individual who was angry, God forbid. You know, look at these things that have happened, right? And, um, he decided to take off all of his clothes and stand in the middle of the road with guns in his hand. Just raised up in the air. Not shooting them. And, you know, obviously nobody knows, but they weren’t even loaded. But the point is he wanted to illicit fear, so and that was exactly what he got, you know, outside of the shock of a completely naked individual standing in the middle fo the road. And here I am with three other male officers. Me and the three of them. And, you know, obviously you try to be in that situation. It’s like no matter what it doesn’t matter. What? Male, female, it doesn’t matter who’s there. You know, we’re all gonna do the same job. But I’m sitting there and I was like we all wanna make a box around him to bring him down to the ground. Like, I’m not taking the front. I don’t care how this goes because if I take the front, this is gonna be in the papers and I’m gonna be on top of this naked individual, you know?

Chad Sands: Yeah.

Cynthia Attard: You know, so I took the back, which is okay. I took the back, but the point is I loved being in the police department. It’s a great group, and they all work really great together. And even as a female, I can say that. They look out for each other, and when there’s situations that do get sticky out there, they rise to the occasion. I’d like to think. At least the ones I’ve met. How does that sound? But you have to pay your dues with everything. I’m proud of it. You know, I love the police chases, those are fun. Especially when you have one guy that’s trying to lose you and he’s going through one stop sign, two stop signs, three stop signs. And I was sitting there counting all of them, and by the time I pulled him over, I was like, “Alright, this is just gonna be interesting, you know?” And the best is when you pull them over and then you say, “Do you know why I pulled you over?”

Chad Sands: Yes.

Cynthia Attard: And then they give you twenty other reasons why you didn’t. You know, what you didn’t see. But they just want to divulge everything, so it’s fun. It was fun. It really helps you understand how people handle pressure. It’s intimidating, obviously, getting pulled over. And whether you have no history or you do have history, it’s intimidating no matter how you wanna play it. So it’s very interesting watching people crack.

Chad Sands: Mhm, yes. Not quite the same pressure, but there’s a little bit of pressure in the courtroom. Right? And maybe now you can share one last story from the plaintiff’s side.

Cynthia Attard: If I’m gonna think back to the old plaintiffs days when I dealt with low, low policy cases, there was one case that for the life of me, I really didn’t think it was going to go anywhere. I just didn’t do it was in my first firm. And I said, you know what? I don’t know where this is going. It was a- it wasn’t even a motor vehicle accident, but it was personal injury. So this girl got an infection in her toe from a nail salon. And what happened was because her gait was disturbed, it caused herniations to her back, necessitating epidurals. You know, when I talked to the principals of the firm, I said, “You really want me to present that in court? Like, is this really where you want me to go with this?” You know, because, you know, outside of the fact that she’s about 80 pounds overweight, do you really want me to say this? Because this is going to be an interesting fight. And they said, “Well, what do you have to lose?” I said, “What do I have to lose?” I’m like, “My integrity? Maybe?” I don’t know. You know, like I just have to believe in the case. But, obviously, you know, when you’re wet behind the ears, you’ve got to litigate everything, every challenge that comes your way. And let me tell you, I mean, thank God it didn’t go to trial because I wouldn’t have known how to go with that one. But when we went into the conference room, you know, to settle the case out with the judge and defense counsel, I’m sitting there with a straight face, mind you, saying, “Well, you know, look at all the treatment. She underwent about ten months of treatment as a result of the, her injuries, you know, all originating from this botched pedicure.” Yeah. judge looks at me and he’s like, “Are you kidding me?” I said, “I wish I was.” Right? I wish I was. We have the everyday cases, but the cases that sit there and remind you, you know, of the challenges you go through as a trial attorney and doing your best to instill your reputation and build it with the courts and other fellow attorneys and so forth. You know, it’s all a challenge all around. And then you get cases like that.

[Narrator]: At Cloudlex, we understand the challenges personal injury law firms face every day. That’s why we’ve built the legal cloud platform to help you stay productive and keep your cases moving forward. CloudLex provides a comprehensive suite of applications and features to support every stage of intake. Pre litigation, trial, and more. From innovative case management to insightful analytics and HIPAA secure client communication. CloudLex empowers your firm with the technology to thrive. Build your firm of the future and see for yourself at www.cloudlex.com.

Now here is this episode’s closing argument.

Cynthia Attard: One thing I could suggest to everyone on the plaintiff’s side, when you’re going to pick your jury, because that’s really where it counts. Connect. Connect with them. During my select, I literally pull a chair up, sort of standing over everybody and talking around them, and just sit down and talk to them face to face. Last thing they want is to look at an attorney and be intimidated or felt like they’re being talked down to. I’ve seen a lot of attorneys that come in there and they just feel like they have to impose this persona of being elite. Every attorney will become elite in their own way, but you don’t have to act it. It’ll happen on its own.

Take your time. Take your time to learn your clients. Take your time to learn the law. There’s a lot of new attorneys out there that feel that they know everything. And you never know everything. It’s about realizing that there’s always something new that you’re going to learn every day. I wouldn’t be able to be as successful as I am today if it weren’t for the people around me. I mean just my family, I mean for the ones that work with me day in and day out. The ones we spend most of our time with.

The last message I want to throw out there to all the attorneys, don’t settle for those low numbers. Let the defense counsel know what you’re about. You’re not going to shy down to the fight. Hold your ground, because there’s money to be made out there. And I look forward to it every single time I walk into the court.

Chad Sands: That was trial lawyer, Cynthia Attard. Thanks for sharing those stories. To learn more about Cynthia and her firm, Ecolav and Associates, visit their website, www.eiesq.com. All right, I’m Chad Sands. Thanks for listening. See you next time.
Narrator: You’ve been listening to Celebrating Justice presented by CloudLex and the Trial Lawyers Journal. Remember, the stories don’t end here. Visit www.triallawyersjournal.com to become part of our community and keep the conversation going. And for a deeper dive into the tools that empower personal injury law firms, visit cloudlex.com/tlj to learn more.